Talk:Hail to the Commanders

Dates needed

A couple questions for any knowledgeable 'Skins fans out there:

1. When did Corinne Griffith create the song and/or when did it come into use?
2. What was the exact date that the lyrics were changed — or did it happen gradually over the 1960s?

Thanks! • Benc • 06:18, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)

As I understand it, the Redskins Marching Band debuted in the 1938 season and Hail to the Redskins debuted that same year. You may also want to include information about the period where the Cowboys original owner held the rights to the song. The first band leader, Barnee Breeskin, became upset with George Preston Marshall and sold the rights to Hail to the Redskins to Clint Murchison, who was attempting to get permission to found the Dallas Cowboys. The rights changed hands for $2500.00 and were offered back in exchange for support for his bid and cash. Murchison got his team and Marshall got his song back.

The truth is that Irvin N. Hackerman, a Major in the Army in WWII was the originator of the lyrics to 'Hail To The Redskins.' At that time it was not uncommon for people to be paid off for taking credit for lyrics they never wrote. In this case, there was a threatening demand made of Mr. Hackerman to allow Corrine Griffith to take the credit. Irvin Hackerman was paid $200 to let the issue rest. Later on in life, Irvin N. Hackerman became a Federal Administrative Law Judge (Judge I.N. Hackerman) with Health and Human Services. He was one of the longest serving Judges in the department. Judge Hackerman past away June 2008 so there is no way to prove this truth. However, in accord with Freedom of Speech and in accord with doing what is right; this truth should remain here on this web site. Judge and Major I.N. Hackerman is the original writer of the original version of 'Hail To The Redskins.' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.0.138.25 (talk) 04:28, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

As far as when the current version started, I think this article, apparently written by a Social Security Administration Administrative Law Judge, states or at least implies that the changes came about as a response to a protest in 1972. See http://www.concordmonitor.com/home/13374604-95/my-turn-for-the-washington-redskins-and-the-nfl-there-is-no-defense. It states: "In 1972, a delegation of Native Americans, including Dennis Banks from the American Indian Movement, LaDonna Harris, president of Americans for Indian Opportunity, and Leon Cole, president of the National Congress of American Indians, met with Edward Bennett Williams, president of the Redskins. They told Williams to shelve the racially derogatory epithet, Redskins. They also wanted Williams to get rid of the Redskinettes, the pseudo-Indian sideline dancing girls, and they wanted him to change the lyrics in the fight song 'Hail to the Redskins.' Williams made no promises, but he did listen. Williams’s only concession had to do with the fight song lyrics."

Someone had previously claimed the old lyrics were in place between 1962 and "1980s." I think that's probably wrong, no source was cited, and while I don't know when the current lyrics were created and started being sung, I grew up in the D.C. area, and I don't think I remember the old lyrics being sung in the 1980s in Washington. So I removed that bit about the old lyrics being used from 1962 through the 1980s. I think the issue of when the song was changed to its current version is not an insignificant one, and no claim should be made about when it was changed until we're reasonably clear about when the change was made and there's a legitimate source to cite. Robert Kelly (talk) 19:43, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

The lyrics can be found on old game programs or old media guides from a year in question. There are quite a few media guides shown on the bgobsession site. For example, they show "Fight for old D.C." from the beginning through 1958. "Fight for old Dixie" is found in 1959, 1960, 1961, and 1962. However, these guides were apparently printed during the pre-season, as I've seen somebody post that he had a game program from Oct 1, 1962 showing the lyrics as "D.C." So it appears the team went back to the original lyrics early in the 1962 season. Mark The Droner (talk) 20:02, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

Other Southern Teams

The notion that there were no other Southern teams until Atlanta is inaccurate.

• Baltimore Colts - 1950
• Dallas Texans - 1952
• Dallas Cowboys - 1960
• Houston Oilers - 1960

(although not the center of the South, still part of the South) --H2O 03:02, 28 Aug 2004 (UTC)

You're absolutely right. Feel free to fix this yourself if you like — I might not be able to get around to fixing this myself for a day or two. Thanks, • Benc • 07:51, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Lyrics

I hate to say it, but if the song is still under copyright, the lyrics should be deleted under WP:L&P. Perhaps somebody could go through and quote just the sections that have changed? --Chancemichaels 13:06, 9 August 2006 (UTC)Chancemichaels

Done. SixFourThree (talk) 17:45, 28 April 2008 (UTC)SixFourThree

Dubious claim on lyrics

The YouTube video at [1] shows the lyrics said "D.C.," not "Dixie," as early as the 1940s. (Go to the 3:35 mark of the video.) -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:51, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

From what I understand, the original 1938 version said D.C. But this evolved to "Dixie" starting in 1959. And then it evolved back to D.C. early in the 1962 season.

The 1958 media guide shows "D.C." in the lyrics.  In the 1959 media guide, apparently issued just before the season started, it is listed showing Dixie in the lyrics, apparently for the first time! Note that this was the year before the Dallas Cowboys were founded.  Dixie was also listed in the fight song lyrics in 1960, 1961, and 1962 media guides.  However, I've read elsewhere that the lyrics were changed back to the original, that is, back to D.C. in 1962 because it shows "D.C." on an Oct 1, 1962 game program.  In the 1963 media guide, the lyrics reverted back to using D.C. So I think we can conclude that the lyrics were revised to the original early in the season in 1962.  Mark The Droner (talk) 23:25, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

Weird

Isn't it weird that this 'song' originated around the same times white American sympathies to Nazi Germany were at an all time high? And it was approved by a guy who was so racist that he only started taking black players on his team because the federal government threatened to kick him out of the RFK stadium (that the federal government built but is no longer active as of the 21st century) they were originally hosted in? Let me know if you agree. Balst32 (talk) 01:44, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Afro American paper

Back in 2015, a user threw into a reference to the Afro American (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hail_to_the_Redskins&diff=prev&oldid=654648593)

The date of the edition doesn't exist, but if anyone has any ideas which day/year he might have meant, there is a very nice archive here: https://news.google.com/newspapers/p/afro?nid=UBnQDr5gPskC&dat=19631026&b_mode=2&hl=en

LeverageSerious (talk) 17:37, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Found it! LeverageSerious (talk) 18:36, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Better Lyrics Needed

The rhythm to this song is fouled up due to the team name being changed. In the original 1938 song, each syllable in the lyrics matched a musical note, and vice versa. This worked perfectly, even after the 1972 revision. It worked all the way up to 2020. The new version of 2022 doesn't work because Snyder's front office forced Commanders, a 3-syllable word, into what had been Redskins, a two-syllable word. One can't force three-syllable Commanders into two musical notes without it sounding awkward and amateurish. It cannot be sung comfortably.

Also, the third line is illogical. "Fight for our Commanders." Who should fight for our Commanders? It sounds like the lyrics are directing somebody - the fans, apparently - to come down from the bleachers and take to the field and fight for our team. I guess the team needs help? Maybe they're tired and need a break. It doesn't make any sense.

Similar problem with the 10th line. "All of Washington!"

Fight on, fight on. Til you have won! All of Washington!

But all of Washington is not fighting. The players are fighting. The team is fighting. The fans are cheering. All of Washington is cheering.

I don't understand why "Sons of Washington" was removed in the first place? Another PC problem? Why would Snyder deliberately create a problem where none exists? Why can't Snyder have a modicum of respect for history and just leave the line alone?

Line 5 can be improved. Change it from

Run or pass or score

to

Run or pass and score

And btw, they need an apostrophe in front of "Til" in line 9. "Til" by itself is not a proper word in English.

Note that all the above problems are Snyder's doing. Josh Harris is innocent.

Here is my suggestion for the new lyrics:

Hail the Commanders! Hail Victory! Fight on, Commanders! Fight for Old D.C.!

Run or pass and score -- We want a lot more! Beat 'em, swamp 'em Touchdown! -- Let the points soar!

Fight on! Fight on! 'Til we have won! Sons of Wash-ing-ton! Rah! Rah! Rah!

Hail the Commanders! Hail Victory! Fight on, Commanders! Fight for Old D.C.!

It flows just like the original 1938 version.

I will write a USPS business letter to the team this week suggesting above. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mark The Droner (talk • contribs) 20:58, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

No offense, but none of that relates to improving this article. Your issues relate to the song itself and are better suited to a Skins' fan forum somewhere. Take note of the purpose of Wikipedia talk pages by looking at WP:TALK, especially WP:TALK#TOPIC, which says, "Talk pages are for discussing the article, not for general conversation about the article's subject (much less other subjects). Keep discussions focused on how to improve the article. Comments that are plainly irrelevant are subject to archiving or removal." 1995hoo (talk) 20:30, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

Incidentally, while Twitter is generally deprecated as a reliable source, the team itself tweeted out the new lyrics at the time of adopting them and confirmed that it's "Run or pass and score," just like in the 1970s-era revision. See https://x.com/Commanders/status/1558522718747873281. 1995hoo (talk) 20:50, 5 February 2025 (UTC)